Posts by Apostate Kate

38

Has God Just Set Us Up For Failure?

by confused_101 in

the fact that in the very beginning god created man and then woman and placed them in the garden of eden, then he told them that they could partake of all the fruits from the trees but that they shouldnt touch his tree.

the tree of knowledgethat is like putting cookies in front of a kid and telling them that they cant eat them.

then he allowed satan to speak to eve (through the serpent) and convince her to eat and then she would know all that was good and bad.

Apostate Kate

So, is what you are saying that since the gift is unconditional and free, then someone like I who have no heartfelt need for a deity or a Jesus, will equally receive as someone like yourself who believes and calls herself Christian?

I'm saying that according to normal mainstream Christianity, God loves you as much as He loves me. According to nmc, we "receive" what we receive. If I was wanting to give my three children a new car and a million dollars all they would need to do was receive it. One of them may have different reasons for not recieving it. Maybe they don't really believe I have it for them. Maybe they think the car is a lemon. Maybe they don't really need the money or the car. The one that recieves the free gift is gonna get a free car and a million dollars.

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

Apostate Kate

Needless to say it had made me sad because I know what it is to loose a loved one and I suffered for a long time in my heart about that other bird loosing it's mate. To this day I don't kill anything unless I plan to eat it, even a bug or spider which I hate most of all, I will not kill. If it is my house I respectfully capture it and set it free to the outside. I CAN NEVER FORGET THAT BIRD MOURNING

{{{{{{{{{{{OldFlame}}}}}}}}}}}

It takes a great man to admit such compassion, a weak man is macho, kills and boasts about it. I am an eternal optomist and believe that we can all be a part of the solution instead of just hating the problem. I applaud your vegetarianism. Good for you! I wish more would see the need. As far as it being inconvenient, it is more inconvenient for me to have ever been a meat eater due to the health risks. I am high risk for health problems and meat consumption exacerbates all health conditions. Our colons were designed for slow digestion of grains and vegetabales, meat putrifies and causes toxic conditions that over time cause greater health problems. Not to mention the chemicals, hormones, antibiotics that food animals are pumped with.

I believe animals were meant to be our helpers, friends, companions. They are so full of personality and characture, loyalty and protection. My son has a cat that thankfully now lives with him. Homer is a red and white male cat with a wry sense of humor. His thing is pissing people off and watching things fall and break. If you have a cup of coffee or glass of water, he sneeks up and knocks it over. He waits to make sure you see the mess. Smiles as you hollar at him and takes off. He has gotten so sneaky now that he will act like he is just walking past, then make a hook out of his extra long tail and knock it off that way. He will also nonchallantly check out the contents of any visitors purse.He then will carefully act like he is just being a curious cat and quietly remove whatever looks good to him, wallet, money, keys..and carry it off to check it out. He's a nut

38

Has God Just Set Us Up For Failure?

by confused_101 in

the fact that in the very beginning god created man and then woman and placed them in the garden of eden, then he told them that they could partake of all the fruits from the trees but that they shouldnt touch his tree.

the tree of knowledgethat is like putting cookies in front of a kid and telling them that they cant eat them.

then he allowed satan to speak to eve (through the serpent) and convince her to eat and then she would know all that was good and bad.

Apostate Kate

If salvation is a "free gift" to all, what need is there to be a Christian?
No offense meant, just curious.

Well there isn't. It is a choice, a belief, a relationship. I love my three children unconditionally. They are not all the same, don't act the same, live the same. I love them all the same, no matter what. I think most parents do. It makes me happy when they call me, and show me with actions they love me. But even if they don't I still love them. If I can love my children unconditionaly how much more is God capable of unconditional love? This is the perspective of normal non cultic mainstream Christianity. There's a lot of erroneas doctrine in the world and has been. Religion means power. I never judge anyone for what they do or do not believe. I focus on the nature of God as presented in the Bible, and the nature of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Who are they? Are they real? Who are they to me if they are real. Inquiring minds love to find out....

Thank you for the welcome!

49

Do Animals Have Feelings?

by anewme in

jw
friends

do they feel love?

fear?

jealousy?

Apostate Kate

Interestingly, this is one of the things that has turned me totally off to there being a god. It is so obvious what aniamls have to do to survive, and this has been going on from the beginning. The idea of their being a creator that started all this is now disgusting to me, especially when he required the kiiling of animals and then enjoyed the odor of their burning flesh. And nowhere in the bible is there any allowance for animals to do anything but die.

Christian Vegetarian Association

Actually I found just the opposite to be true. It was never Gods intention for us to have to kill animals. Check out this site and you'll see what I mean. I LOVE animals and am a Christian Vegan x JW. I could never eat my friends. If enough of us would stop eating meat we can make a difference. The methods of slaughter are criminal, it is sickening.

Christian Vegetarian Association; "Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matt. 6:26) and does not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exod. 23:5; Deut. 22:6–7, 25:4). Yet, in the United States, virtually all food derived from animals is obtained through intensive factory farming methods. Nearly ten billion land animals are slaughtered each year, over a million every hour, and the number of aquatic animals killed for food is far greater. These animals suffer greatly from stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their instinctive drives, amputations without anesthesia (including debeaking, dehorning, tail docking, and castration), and other painful procedures (Bernard Rollin, Ph.D., Farm Animal Welfare).

Slaughter typically involves terror and, often, great pain (Gail Eisnitz, Slaughterhouse). Illustrating the industry’s callousness, animals too sick to walk are painfully dragged to slaughter rather than humanely euthanized. Typical of the industry’s attitude, John Byrnes wrote, “Forget the pig is an animal. Treat him just like a machine in a factory” (Hog Farm Management). "

I got my Christmas card today from Linda Blair who created the "Linda Blair World Heart Foundation" that works to stop animal abuse. She also is a vegan. Animals love, get jealous heck yeah! My rat terrier teases my mom's chihuahua mercilessly with his favorite toy. She smiles when he gets angry. ~Love, Kate of the apostate vegan animal lover class

38

Has God Just Set Us Up For Failure?

by confused_101 in

the fact that in the very beginning god created man and then woman and placed them in the garden of eden, then he told them that they could partake of all the fruits from the trees but that they shouldnt touch his tree.

the tree of knowledgethat is like putting cookies in front of a kid and telling them that they cant eat them.

then he allowed satan to speak to eve (through the serpent) and convince her to eat and then she would know all that was good and bad.

Apostate Kate

"I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details." -- Albert Einstein

I don't think Einstein was any more intelligent than you and I. I think he was free to learn,(home schooled), was not forced into a desctructive cult and he had an enquiring mind. We have to play catch up since we were taught not to think for ourselves.

Personaly IMHO I,like Einstein have no problem believing in God. I know the Bible can seem confusing but after years of researching it for myself, I have come to my own conclusions and am very sure of them. It didn't happen overnight that's for sure. I don't believe God set me up for failure at all. I don't feel like a failure. I am not good and don't have to be good to feel right with God.

The difference between my relationship with God today, and my relationship with Him as a JW is this; I am not seen by God as "aproved" based on my door to door activity or meeting attendance or obediance to the law. God loves me period and sent Jesus to cover ALL my screw ups. It isn't about me. It is about God and what He did FOR me. The blood of Christ biblicaly is much more than the Dubs told us.

The thing about Adam and Eve that the Dubs teach incorrectly is that Adam and Eve caused all the problems. The fact is we all would have, it is part of our nature. But that's ok God knew we would mess up and provided the solution in Jesus. It is a free gift. I look at it as in our simple life with family. I raised three children. As a parent if I allowed my children to do whatever they wanted without any consequences, they would have grown up to be maniacs. They had to be disciplined (disciple) through cause and effect. You hit your brother, you get time out. Jesus died so we would not face the punishment for our crimes. He suffered in our place. Paid in full. We will never have to face time out because of the mistakes we make here. Go to one of the online Bibles and do a word search for "free gift" and see how the Bible was misrepresented to us if you are curious. It blew my mind. Lies lies lies and misrepresentations is all we got from the org.

It was really hard to be brave enough to start posting. I have utmost respect for you all. ~Love, Kate

19

Socialization of JW Kids

by Mysterious in

jw
friends

through the course of my university studies in social sciences there seems to be a repeated emphasis on early socialization shaping personality and having a drastic effect on the long term life of kids.

studies of extreme neglect are often the only ones cited, such as children locked in a closet for the early years of their lives with no human contact.

it's lead me to wonder about the long term effects of jw socialization on youths that are raised in the organization.

Apostate Kate

At 45 and having made it through Armageddon in 1975, I can tell you that although it has taken me years of therapy, research and self analyzation, I still prefere to be with my pets, children, and my completly non conformist dear hubby. Socialization was truly horrible for me. Way too much to delve into but I would like to comment on an interesting observation from my JW age group, my JW peers.

The ones "born in it" in the 60ies-early 70ies all had an interesting emotional definciency. There is an age in early childhood development called by some psychologists as the "magical period." It is the time in a child's life that they normaly would stop believing in the Tooth Fairy, etc. They move from an inner perspective (self) to an outer perspective and begin to become aware of world events and the needs of those around them. Imaginary friends disappear. Play becomes more reality based.

Most of my JW peers never made it through this otherwise normal transition. They ended up with differing levels of psychosis. For example, they could read peoples thoughts, see demons, hear demons, etc etc. They imagine they have medical maladies that in reality have been ruled out, the list goes on. One poor soul I know of was institutionalized because she was convinced Armegeddon had come and her loved ones didn't make it. This I believe is why there is a pedophile issue aparently larger than the general population. Some of these JW adults are stuck back in that pre magical thinking period. They are unable to relate to adults. I'm not referring to the violent predators, but the few males I had contact with. One was busted for receiveing computer child porn by the Feds. I worry that he may turn into an active predator. He is currently attending a Kingdom Hall. Look at M.Jackson. He is typical of what I am referring to. Unable to be an adult, have a normal adult social life and sees children as peers.

The clash of the two worlds caused more social misfits and psychological problems..now I'm sad remembering my friends. I lost my two best childhood girlfriends.

dammit

53

LOOKS OR PERSONALITY?

by Mary in

jw
friends

ok, if you had to choose between looks and personality, which wins?

guys: if a girl is only mediocre in the looks department but is absolutely fab-u-lous in the personality dept...........which is more important to you?

or are they equally important?

Apostate Kate

LOL yep Mary that is what my husband says and he should know since he is one. I don't know why he is so different. He has a totally different set of values than any man I had met. I have so many girlfriends who fall for so many lines, and compromise. A guy is wired differently. I like the new book written by a guy "I'm Really Just Not That Into You." Some guys can have sex with any woman he finds the least bit attractive, without really liking her enough to make a commitment. Most women are wired to connect sex/intimacy with true bonding eternal love. How do we ever make it?

38

Card of Encouragement From Long-time JW Reeks of Despair

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i happened to see a card a few minutes ago from a jw i grew up with to another jw that we grew up with.

all of us are in our 50s now, and we've known each other since we were early teens.. the sister who wrote the card has pioneered for decades.

she's married, but decided to never have kids.

Apostate Kate

It has been over a decade since I left and thinking in terms of tomorrow lasting was not easy. It took awhile for me to think about being 50 years old EVEN though I no longer believed Armageddon was "around the corner". I seemed to have a problem working hard for a future like my college education. I had obstacles but allowed them to defeat me partly I think due to this odd feeling that I wouldn't be around to enjoy the fruit of the hard work.

~Kate

29

Love Bombing JWs vs JWD

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

according to the book cults in our midst by margaret thaler singer the practice of love bombing is a common practice in groups who seek to control others.

she states:.

most cults have specific plans for drawing in each recruit.

Apostate Kate

{{{{{{{{{{{{Middle Child}}}}}}}}}}}}

29

Love Bombing JWs vs JWD

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

according to the book cults in our midst by margaret thaler singer the practice of love bombing is a common practice in groups who seek to control others.

she states:.

most cults have specific plans for drawing in each recruit.

Apostate Kate

I have given serious thought to this too. I, bring new here, deliberatly introduced myself to make first contact with the board. I have read the board over the years and really wasn't into debates or arguments so I never joined. It is encouraging to know that some of you stuck it out. Also the topics here are very deep and at times would trigger past emotions related to my nightmare JW childhood.

There are many different ex JW support groups that do offer unconditional acceptance with and without agendas. We are connected by our collective experiences, how we reacted to them has all been different, and it seems on this board the; agree to disagree is important for cohesian. This Forum has been the leader in information distribution IMHO.

After the Watchtower I myself have joined "Babylon the Great The World empire of false religion" and am in a leadership position in a Community Church. We are actually trying to teach our members to feel and show unconditional love to newby's. For many it is not natural to welcome strangers. The difference is whether our members make services or not, we love them years after they join. Some have fallen to drug addiciton, we hold thier hands and offer our unconditional love through all thier trials. Some JWs say well great so what do you do about sin? We love them. We do not disfellowship. IF they are in a leadership position, they may be asked to step down if they are committing some grave habitual sin such as molestation, rape, overt criminal activity. But we have never had to ask someone not to come, or had reason to shun them. (We had a mentally challenged man come in and seen us preparing the communion juice and crackers and said "not that crap again!)

The difference between the Watchtower and many mainstream churches is, we are not task oriented. We have no agenda except to provide help to the Community, be it moral support, financial support through food banks and charities, or helping hand ministries to help those in need of whatever their needs may be. We do not withhold love or assistance based on performance. Love Bombing takes place in cults when there is an agenda to gain converts, usually task orieted such as door to door field service. We don't try to gain members at our mainstrean church. For some it may be important but actually we are very small with about 35 members a week. It is a very small town also.

So Love Bomb this newby all you want! There is not enough love in the world. We are free.

~Kate